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@mikemilton - "

This is a time of positive departure in future facing directions and it is clear that is happening as we speak.

I don't post here much, and I read through the entire thread before posting. Whew. Lots to digest.

I don't think the subscription model is unreasonable, although I can understand why some would. I would posit that if registered-yet-unsubscribed users were not able to use these forums as a resource, it being the internet and all, another forum would probably spring up. I don't think that would be a bad thing either, as "independent" fora can be very valuable resources. That said, a year isn't anything like enough time to really learn how to both technically play an Alpha, and also learn its architecture and learn to customise it. It's the most complicated, deep, and rewarding instrument I have played ever.

I've paid MOTU a lot of money every couple of years to get updates to DP, since it came out back in the 90s sometime. I choose to do that not because I am afraid of falling behind but because I want the new functionality. They don't work on the subs model, and their updates aren't that expensive (cost of entry is however) but cost is subjective. I also didn't master DP in the first year, although I got good at it and continue to know my way around what I want to do. Their support sucks, too, IMO. But Motunation seems to pick up the slack.

I also pay Cycling74 money every couple of years. Their support is even more whack. Free, but a free for all, and famously intolerant of noob questions. Also not a subscription. But rich and useful if you lurk, a lot like this forum. ;)

These are early days. I'm still both excited by the hardware and the software environment. I am fine working within the EigenD framework, but again that's me, and I just want EigenD to work and not crash (don't I send in the reports?) and I love the fact that it is gaining features to allow me to craft a playing environment that works for me.

I can't argue with reality, especially the part where Eigenlabs needs to survive. I personally think that the subscription model will evolve as fluidly as the rest of the software, though, but in the meantime I'll play the game, and expect more change.

Hi Jean,

The current testing releases of 1.4 and stable releases of 1.3 already have a fully updated reference guide for all instruments. It's installed together with the EigenD application on your computer, but can also be downloaded from http://www.eigenlabs.com/wiki/The_Instruments/

Many users are using the 1.4 testing release all the time with very good results, I encourage you to give it a try and report back in case you experience problems. We're now first putting our efforts into getting a first experimental release of 2.0 out and will then tend to the last few minor open issues in 1.4. I'm sorry but we can't give you a firm release date yet for either.

Best regards,

Geert

After reading all of the above, I am still rather miffed with this announcement. I bought a Pico and then through my institution bought an Alpha - thats a lot of money invested in Eigenlabs with the faith that the product would evolve to have a good clean, GUI based editing system. Belcanto is very geeky - fine for some of us, not for many and not for many university students who have access to the Alpha. So after spending about 4500 pounds I find I am being asked to pay per year to get hold of proper software to run the instruments.

Firstly I think this is poor because after investing in the instruments, if I want any decent level of control of setup I am forced to pay up

Secondly, educational institutions don;t do subscriptions well - they can find budget for purchase and will look at arguments for major updates, but not subs.

So I guess I have tried to support your development - I think the Eigenharp has great potential - it really needs a proper visual setup to load instruments into slots, establish FX chains etc. Stage goes some fo the way there, but where for instance can I setup the instruments in each slot for a setup with good visual feedback and without using a convoluted set of key commands? These kinds of things are essential.

So as I say, I have supported your development with substantial funds and am now rather disappointed that those of us who have done that - supported your dream and ours of new and innovative controllers, are now being corralled into an ongoing financial commitment without the foundation really being realised.

Frustrated. Garth

Hi Nothan

Yes I see that as one way to see it - but the Alpha for instance is not cheap and the main way to setup sounds is through a convoluted set of key presses using the Browser - this is really substandard. I purchased the instrument (and the Pico) knowing it was still under development, but expecting to see a proper usable setup interface before being asked to pay again. All of us have intact been beta testers, so receiving the proper interface for free seems just normal practice. Now I feel like a funding source for Eigenlabs rather than a musician who bought an instrument.

Cheers, garth

Disclaimer: Please do not take this as an attack in anyway, I just want to speak my mind to let you know how I feel about this and do some constructive critism. I fully understand and support the paid major update thing, it makes sense, but please keep in mind that:

Personally, I feel that the workbench should be included with the free updates. To me my Pico then would be a round thing, a complete basis to work on.
We were kept waiting for it for more than a year now if I am not mistaking. "The workbench will be out soon" seemed to often be the answer for requests on the forum.

From there, paying for the major updates is an understandable thing, but I think that the base must be completet before you expand properly.
If the instruments and other goodys seem worth it, I think I will buy the update.

Thing is that I think the update should really be mainly aimed toward advanced users, but the workbench always seemed like something that made the most sense to new users, making it easier to understand the eigenharp.

I too would really like to see a special program for early eigenharp addopters, as a way of saying thank you for your trust and intrest, lets walk on together. Does not have to be free 2.0, though that would be very much appreciated, but a discount would be nice.

I am someone who after well over a year has just gotten my Pico to do what I originally bought it for (playing stable and recording the pico output in Cubase). I was there at the beginning of the windows release and went through a lot of problems (they and the lack of recording options aside from midi controller even lead me temperarily abandon my Pico out of frustration) and while eigenD is running without big issues now I still need a third party programm (Virtual Audio Cable) to do what I think to be rather basic functionality.
It took me over a year to be able to show my friends what the eigenharp can do in a proper way.

Also I would still love to see softlinks to sf2 files be accepted under windows as my SSD maindrive is constantly full and I simply cannot find the space for the sf2 data. This is also something I would really want to see in the free release.


Please do not take this as an attack in anyway, I just want to speak my mind to let you know how I feel about this and do some constructive critism. I fully understand and support the paid major update thing, it makes sense, but please keep in mind that:

You can use the command line mklink command. The following works for me:

1. Move the soundfont directory from C:\Program Files (x86)\Eigenlabs somewhere else.

I used an external USB drive, mounted on F: so my soundfont directory ended up as 'f:\sf2\eigenlabs'

You will want to make sure that wherever you put the soundfonts always gets the same drive letter
if its on an external drive.

2. Run cmd as administrator. Type cmd into the windows search box, right click on cmd, and click 'run as administrator'

3. cd \Program Files (x86)\Eigenlabs

4. mklink /d soundfont f:\sf2\eigenlabs

And EigenD still finds the soundfonts.

jim

Oh Jim, I wanne give you a big, big hug.
Thank you very much for that.
This needs to go into the wiki asap.

That method in general might come in handy with one or two other programms as well.

Charging for updates is a difficult thing.

Do I use my instrument enough to justify a continuing investment into it?

Well, last year and this year I spent some money on Reaktor and AAS Strum Bundle, both of them on special offer and they've significantly increased the value I get from my instrument. That makes them a valuable investment.

I keep thinking that it would be nice to own a Tau, but I don't feel that I am good enough with it to justify such a significant outlay when my disposable income has decreased in real terms.

Should I continue to pay a support fee equal to 25% of the original equipment price?

I guess I should ask what I get for the money? Is it going to significantly improve my experience with the Eigenharp? If it included more sounds, more flexibility (course splits on Pico?), let me have more fun for less time investment then I guess I'd be up to paying.

Some people won't make use of all the things you offer and they'll find it hard to justify the cost, but they probably will want to continue to use the instrument they bought if they upgrade their OS - this is the first electronic instrument I've owned that threatens to stop working (despite being physically functional) if you stop paying the company a fee on a yearly basis.

It makes it an even more unwelcoming thought that if I do buy a Tau, I'm only guaranteed a year's use of it for £2000... I was even more disappointed this year when I saw that it no longer comes with a breath pipe for that money.

I guess I'm unusual in that I am just in it to have fun, not to earn money with it, I guess the best value proposition I will see would be getting a second hand Tau. Anyone got one for an affordable sum?

Thank you for the reply, John, I understand why you need to charge something for this, however, it's simply not practical to "not upgrade" a computer and stay with an old version of the software unless you also disconnect it from any network. This instantly reduces the computer to the specific purpose and with that purpose being music synthesis, specific sounds eventually. It means that to make the Eigenharp an actual instrument/appliance you need to reserve a computer to the appropriate spec. I was hopeful that the "Open Source" would allow drivers to be kept up to date but it seems that vital components are missing from that (particularly for pico).

I'll keep an eye on the homepage as you suggest, but much as I want to support a company from my old college town, I don't use it enough to get the value out of it within its software lifespan.

Perhaps you can consider just releasing driver (the bits you can't build yourself) updates at a minimal cost without other support?

I really hope your manufacturing costs come down and I do wish I could justify a Tau...