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General Discussion: From 1.4.x to 2.x

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written by: fcolasanto

Dear John many thanks for your response. Its very nice to know that you people are concerned about the needs of the users

Best

Francisco

written by: fcolasanto

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 00:01:56 +0100 BST

Hi there,
I'm very happy with my TAU but still I'm a little bit disappointed with the documentation of belcanto, in that point I believe that there is a contradiction.

Eigenharp is a very flexible instrument and capable of playing many different styles in much less time that using a traditional acoustic instrument. But I must say that is the opposite with belcanto. Is very hermetic and the documentations seems to be for people that already knows how to use it...its more useful as a reference than as a method to learn how to use it.

For axample I spend a lot of time trying to create an interface for Max to control my tau. Finally I succeeded but spending a lot of time in that task.
This is the code:

-----------------------------------
midi input create
it to midi input 1 name ify
eigenbrowser hey
midi input 1 port browse
talker create
it to midi talker 27 name ify
midi input 1 activation output to midi talker 27 activation input connect
kgroup 1 hey
all join
midi talker 27 listen
kgroup 1 listen
scale to natural major when 1 set
scale to ionian when 2 set
scale to major when 3 set
scale to chromatic when 4 set
scale to spanish 8 tone when 5 set
scale to flamenco when 6 set
scale to symmetrical when 7 set
scale to inverted diminished when 8 set
scale to diminished when 9 set
scale to whole tone when 10 set
scale to augmented when 11 set
scale to 3 semitone when 12 set
scale to 4 semitone when 13 set
scale to locrian ultra when 14 set
scale to locrian super when 15 set
scale to locrian super when 15 set
scale to indian when 16 set
scale to locrian when 17 set
scale to phrygian when 18 set
scale to neapolitan major when 19 set
scale to todi when 20 set
scale to persian when 21 set
scale to oriental when 22 set
scale to phrygian major when 23 set
scale to spanish when 24 set
scale to jewish when 25 set
scale to double harmonic when 26 set
scale to gypsy when 27 set
scale to byzantine when 28 set
scale to chahargah when 29 set
scale to marva when 30 set
scale to enigmatic when 31 set
scale to locrian natural when 32 set
scale to natural minor when 33 set
scale to minor when 34 set
scale to melodic minor when 35 set
scale to aeolian when 36 set
scale to algerian 2 when 37 set
scale to hungarian minor when 38 set
scale to algerian when 39 set
scale to algerian 1 when 40 set
scale to harmonic minor when 41 set
scale to mohammedan when 42 set
scale to dorian when 43 set
scale to hungarian gypsy when 44 set
scale to romanian when 45 set
scale to locrian major when 46 set
scale to arabian when 47 set
scale to hindu when 48 set
scale to ethiopian when 49 set
scale to mixolydian when 50 set
scale to mixolydian augmented when 51 set
scale to harmonic major when 52 set
scale to lydian minor when 53 set
scale to lydian dominant when 54 set
scale to overtone when 55 set
scale to lydian when 56 set
scale to lydian augmented when 57 set
scale to leading whole tone when 58 set
scale to blues when 59 set
scale to hungarian major when 60 set
scale to pb when 61 set
scale to balinese when 62 set
scale to pe when 63 set
scale to pelog when 64 set
scale to iwato when 65 set
scale to japanese when 66 set
scale to kumoi when 67 set
scale to hirajoshi when 68 set
scale to pa when 69 set
scale to pd when 70 set
scale to pentatonic major when 71 set
scale to chinese when 72 set
scale to chinese 1 when 73 set
scale to mongolian when 74 set
scale to pfcg when 75 set
scale to egyptian when 76 set
scale to pentatonic minor when 77 set
scale to chinese 2 when 78 set
scale to altered when 79 set
scale to bebop dominant when 80 set
scale to bebop dominant flatnine when 81 set
scale to bebop major when 82 set
scale to bebop minor when 83 set
scale to bebop tonic minor when 84 set
scale to monotone when 85 set
scale to user 1 when 86 set
scale to user 2 when 87 set
scale to user 3 when 88 set
tonic to notec when 100 set
tonic to notecsharp when 101 set
tonic to noted when 102 set
tonic to notedsharp when 103 set
tonic to notee when 104 set
tonic to notef when 105 set
tonic to notefsharp when 106 set
tonic to noteg when 107 set
tonic to notegsharp when 108 set
tonic to notea when 109 set
tonic to noteasharp when 110 set
tonic to noteb when 111 set
octave to - 1 when 112 set
octave to 1 when 113 set
octave to 2 when 114 set
octave to 3 when 115 set
octave to 4 when 116 set
octave to 5 when 117 set
octave to 6 when 118 set
octave to 7 when 119 set
octave to 8 when 120 set

--------------------------
Now I'm trying to port this to EigenD 2.x but doesn't work. And I'm trying to use the illuminator agent but without luck.


I'm sure that some kind person will answer me with the solution but still that is no the issue. I think that eigenlabs must to spend time and money doing a step by step manual of belcanto or create an OSC system to control all the posibilities of the instrument. In that case you only have to find the rigth stream to send.

Probably the solution is Workbench but I dont know how easy is to use it and I don't think its fair that I have to spend 139 pounds to look if this system is better than the other one.

Probably the solution is to have a Trial Workbench to try it a little bit.

I'm trying to make a constructive criticism here...

Best

Francisco


written by: dhjdhj

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 05:31:59 +0100 BST

You might want to take a look at a website I created recently that focuses specifically on managing the eigenharp with max. It depends only on EigenD sending OSC data.

See http://max4eigenharp.com for more info


written by: geert

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 08:11:58 +0100 BST

Hi Francisco,

There are a large amount of changes in EigenD 2 that have not been documented since it's still in the experimental phase. During the testing phase we'll have a push to work on the EigenD 2 documentation, including new tutorials and reference materials. However, in the meantime EigenD 2 really is, as it says, experimental.

Using Workbench it's indeed much easier to make these kind of changes since you can visually see what is going on. When I find a moment, I'll take a look at porting your script to EigenD 2.

Take care,

Geert


written by: john

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 12:11:55 +0100 BST

Hi Francisco

Geert is quite right, this stuff is much, much easier using Workbench. Building setups from scratch was always hard using Belcanto (and was never something we have formally supported as a result) and rather that spend a lot of time producing tutorial material for that process we decided to make a new tool to just make it a lot more discoverable and easier. Moving forward we doubt that setups will ever get built just using Belcanto, it's much more likely to be used for it's original design purpose, which is as a command language for use in performance, either directly or via talkers. This kind of functionality is best illustrated in tutorials and will form part of the growing series for Workbench in time. You can read the first ones here if you're interested - it's a work in progress but I think Al has been doing a fine job of showing people how to start from the beginning.

Addressing your suggestion of a trial version of Workbench (thanks for the idea btw), we did consider this at some length and it's an attractive idea for a number of reasons but has a serious downside, unfortunately. The main issue for us in offering such a thing is that it means we have to then include some kind of DRM system in the code. This is a big, ugly thing to do and it's a step that we really wanted to avoid for now if we could as it not only involves a whole load of work but it also introduces a range of nasty failure modes that I personally hate - having a licence expire at a gig, for whatever reason, is not very funny. The general testing and paranoia to reduce the likelihood of this is a big resource drain and one we judged not to be worthwhile as yet as well as being generally unpleasant for most users - these things are never, ever fully transparent in day to day use.

In the meantime, having a read of the documentation and asking existing users (of which there are now quite a few, despite it's experimental status) should give you a reasonable idea of if it's worthwhile for you. If we can answer any questions you might have about Workbench please don't hesitate to ask them.

As an aside, please be aware that the current OSC Agent is not supported. It's a demonstration Agent written for the open source community (to illustrate how to write an EigenD agent from scratch) and it may well change in the future. In fact, it is very likely to change in the future as we do have plans for OSC in a broader way within EigenD. This is the reason that no factory setups, tutorials or formal documentation exist for it. There's not a lot of point of developing material for something that will probably get major changes before becoming a formal part of EigenD.

John


written by: fcolasanto

Sat, 21 Apr 2012 16:52:10 +0100 BST

Dear John many thanks for your response. Its very nice to know that you people are concerned about the needs of the users

Best

Francisco



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