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I just got my pico today and am already having a blast with it. After spending half a day with it I have quickly run into the stumbling blocks involving octaves and accidentals of which I see there are so many other posts about. While I do not expect the same kind of full chromaticism with any note I want in any octave available at a moment's notice like I get on my Yamaha WX-5 wind MIDI controller (the affordances of the pico simply do not allow for this kind of functionality), I do see some potential to remap the existing keys into something possibly more usable utilizing the workbench.

Once I figure out how to use all of the software I intend to take a stab at it myself - but just in case someone else has already done this, I figured I might as well ask. Plus, any additional usability input would be valued.

Here is the meat of my idea. The bottom two keys in the default setup are dedicated to scrolling. While I see some potential use for this, I would be willing to give up this utility in favor of being able to play accidentals. The idea is that two of the 18 keys would be dedicated to half step up/half step down (not sure how the command language in the workbench allows this - maybe the implementation is that it bends the pitch up/down a full half step).

An example of this implementation is to press the half step up key and then press a key that plays the note C, bending it up a half step into a C#. Or, if you pressed the half step down button and the C key, it would play a Cb (aka a B natural).

The question of which two keys to use should be customizable. My personal preference from some fiddling with different ways to hold the instrument would be to make the two central keys the up/down keys, the top hand plays the top 8 keys and the bottom hand plays the bottom 8 keys. This - for me (although it would require further testing) - provides the greatest flexibility. In this manner, it also brings your bottom hand one row of keys closer to the bottom, allowing the little finger easier quick access to the octave keys. Not the most ideal setup (again, I cannot expect the amazing flexibility of my WX-5 here), but the idea to me seems meritorious enough to experiment with.

Any thoughts on this subject would be appreciated.

~Seth

I must say I like the idea of having a two-key half step up/down option, even on an Alpha... it would allow for use of a condensed keyboard (more splits) and would make fingering easier. Any ideas on how to do it? Experts?

Thanks,
Pat

um... well one *can* always choose the chromatic scale. BTW, on the pico, It does help to set the 'root' note to minimize octave switching for the piece being played.

m

PS: I ply WX5/7 are you an Akai or a Yamaha player? Lots of my 'old' stuff transfers over nicely on mono (typically using a VL1M synth which works quite nicely with the 'harps as well)

We have a feature request ticket that has now been around since before we launched in 2009 believe it or not, to add up/down variation values to all our scales. This would enable the scaler to step away from the scale interval by increments using modifier keys, so one could define suitable modifiers by scale (which is kind of needed for this to work as the obvious modifiers are not the same for the major scale as they might be for the blues scale, for example). Related features are to add the ability in the scaler for the pitchbend range to use these modifiers to adapt itself key by key to use them, and the ability to apply a seperate intonation table to make defining alternative tempers easier (this can be done at the moment, but it is a little clumsy as one has to define separate scales for each kind of temperament).

Seeing that there is obviously quite a lot of interest in this, I'll see if we can move the basic scale modifier feature up the queue. Out of interest, which out of this feature or a fingering agent (to be able to play a wider range monphonicallyusing woodwind style fingerings) do the Pico players here think more important?

John

@john - When played Pico, I really wanted a mono-fingering mode similar to the WX5 or AKAI sax-style approach. Valve fingering might actually work better but there are probably fewer people for whom that approach is part of their existing bag of tricks.

That said, I think (even for the Pico) adding up/down variations is a (much) more promising (and potentially very rich) approach.

Geert had a (midi?) filter early on that put a 'flat spot' in pitchbend which could probably be adapted (and perhaps moved to yaw) such that tapping each key has 3 notes (center, right and left = note, #, b). Tinkering with the 'breakpoints' would likely yield something playable. I sometimes play 'duets' on the 2osc sampler by playing only the sides of the keys - yaw is not just for crossfades hehehe.

@dhjdhj - I can see how replicating a guitar note pattern helps find the notes but it isn't clear to me how this touches on the issue of having all the chromatic-scale semitones available to play. As an aside, try some alternate guitar tunings. Drobo (G)BDGBD works quite nicely - just think of your left index finger as a steel.

@keyman - yup that strange behaviour when the 'harp hears midi is a feature not a bug (really). The (venerable) MFC from Yanaha is OK but it would (will?) be nice to automate/sequence in stage.

cheers, m

It was just a thought... I think I was just considering a step rather than a curve for PB. Small inputs leave the note at the assigned one, past a threshold the note steps up/down to the accidental.

That said, one clearly does not want the base (centre?) note to sound so there would necessarily be some delay. Also it *would* be an 'interesting' exercise to get the threshold and transition right. Also, one would want to have a hold / resound strategy for instances where one wants to play, say e, eb, e.

I'm always interested by how your answers open up the thinking required to actually go in the direction under discussion. It astounds me how much thought and insight are already embodied in the platform.

m

There is some interesting and useful discussion going on here.

I play a Yamaha WX5 and have both a VL70-m and a VL1 series 2 tone generators. I have not tried to hook them up and play them through the Pico's MIDI control yet. Instead, I have mostly been focusing on finger training (pulled out some of my old Rubank Advanced Clarinet Method books and have been going through them to build up finger memory). There was an older thread discussing extreme latency through the VL70-m. Are you experiencing any latency using the VL1?

Being able to apply modifiers to the scale via scroll is a nice idea that I look forward to trying out. With a bit of careful planning before I play, I could load a layout that would allow me to do all sorts of stuff with that. For example, one key could apply modifiers based on how I press the key, and the other key could apply octave modifiers.

Assuming the level of control I am imagining is possible at all, let alone without significant latency, this could be amazingly robust.

For example, the middle left key would be octave, and I could scroll up one octave by pressing any level of up and scroll down one octave by pressing any level of down (it seems best to me from a user perspective to map it so that any value entered into pitch or yaw would equate to one level of movement [or two levels of movement in the case of yaw]). Pressing any level of left could scroll up 2 octaves and any level of right could scroll right 2 octaves. Pressing the key would return me to the initial (default) octave. The scaler modification key could work the same way.

Using pedals or footboards is a nice option if you have them. If I did I would definitely be looking into that (I have been wanting a Yamaha MFC10 for years). Anyone who has them I definitely encourage to make the most of the wonderful synergies you can build with them. However, my focus is on trying to make the most with the standalone Pico hardware interface. This means trying to make the software as robust and customizable as possible. Carrying around a laptop and the Pico with me would be so much more convenient than carrying around the WX-5, 1+ tone generators, a foot switch (when I eventually get one), pedals, etc. This is part of why I got this instrument - the potential for such amazing customizable robustness in a small package (that and the layered recorder made me drool - because then I do not have to deal with a separate looping pedal recorder and organizing the loops and playback through a separate piece of software).

Before all of this wonderfulness can be accomplished, these basic features are necessary. More than anything else, both of these features (or some other solution to octave/accidentals in mono/polyphonic performance) need to be in place for me to be able to perform in any meaningful way.

Thanks for all of the good dialogue so far.
~Seth

Works just like a real guitar --- I can play in any key I want. Granted there's already a chromatic scale tuning built-in but it's more suitable for violin/cello players and since I already know guitar fingering, it was easier to have that tuning.

Agree completely with your suggestions for other open tunings but I'm kind of stuck until I can get some help to more easily be able to change the tunings ---- right now it's just too complicated for me.

@dhjdhj - I can see how replicating a guitar note pattern helps find the notes but it isn't clear to me how this touches on the issue of having all the chromatic-scale semitones available to play. As an aside, try some alternate guitar tunings. Drobo (G)BDGBD works quite nicely - just think of your left index finger as a steel.

The issue with changing the octave key is threefold:

1) I really need the octave keys to be there so I can change octaves. Everything I play requires more than the two octaves available when using a standard western scale. I use the octave keys a lot.

2) The octave keys are too far away to press quickly and reliably for this purpose. My fingers are small and it is too far for me to reliably stretch my little finger over the function keys (scroll keys) quickly and accurately to press an octave key for a quick accidental and then press the other one to go back again. As an aside, my preference of having the function keys (that is, the scroll keys in the default setup) in the middle instead of the bottom would make accessing the octave keys so much easier.

3) It does not solve the problem at all of wanting to play a polyphonic chord with one note different. I play a lot of modal stuff. The ability to suddenly just add a flat 9th when playing a 1-4-9-11 chord (just as an example) is really essential to me. I know I could just be playing in chromatic all the time - but the big problem with chromatic is that there are not enough keys for me to be able to traverse octaves easily. Chromatic provides 1.33 octaves, which is not reliable enough to do anything along these lines.

Making the Eigenharp Pico into an electronic harp intrigues me. In the orchestra I play with I had the experience of arranging music for use with the harp and studied its setup with all of the pedals to shift the strings into different modes and learned a lot about what it is capable of and what it is not. Fascinating instrument. Had some really interesting conversations with the harpist about what to do and not to do. Not sure how practical this is with only 16 keys available to me (still does not let me play the above example when improvising [careful planning it would let me]), but, with customizable "pedal" mode shifts it would be a real improvement.

If I could use the mrdoran's suggestion with the two function keys (scroll keys) AND move them to the center, that would at least be a good interim kluge.

~Seth