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Pico: Is there a Pico MIDI Implementation Chart available?

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written by: mikemilton

Actually, while mapping the controller isn;t a huge challenge it is a cluge... As the owner of a VL1 and WX5 I would *definitely* appreciate the ability to have breath delivered to midi (and to AU's) as, well, breath (ie: controller 2). This would make my life a *lot* easier dealing with all my legacy equipment and patches.

As an aside, the VL1 uses cc16/17 for key real-time controls. It would be nice to have a setup that mapped the strip(s) to these.

I suspect that you will see a growing number of WX/EWI players expressing an interest in the Eigenharp

cheers, m

written by: KaylaK

Wed, 2 Dec 2009 22:52:49 +0000 GMT

Hi,

I'm working with my Producer Nigel Pease and we're trying to use the Pico as a MIDI Controller in Pro Tools to record a Tin Whistle sound (yes really :) for my album. The MIDI side of things is working fine, and we're able to control Virtual Instruments within Pro Tools with no problem. However, the Breath Controller is not functioning as it does on the Cello/Clarinet settings when using the Pico's on board sounds.

Nigel recorded the output from the Pico using Breath Controller only, and tells me that the Breath Controller outputs controller 17 i.e. "general purpose no. 2" controller. Is it possible to remap this to "aftertouch" or any other controller? Or is it possible to configure the Pico to output MIDI data that is affected by the Breath Controller in the same way as the internal Cello/Clarinet sounds?

Many thanks!

Kayla Kavanagh


written by: geert

Wed, 2 Dec 2009 23:30:18 +0000 GMT

Hi Kayla,

I don't think this is possible with the default EigenD setup but Eigenlabs could set probably something up for you. If you feel adventurous, it's possible to do this by using the Plogue Bidule audio unit and map audio unit parameters from the breath control to it. Inside Bidule you can then use these values and generate any MIDI message you want. I can give you a setup that does this in Bidule since I'm already doing exactly this. The plugin version of Bidule isn't free though and it's a quite hardcore tool ... but extremely useful, it has allowed me solve many issues like these over the past year.

Take care,

Geert


written by: john

Thu, 3 Dec 2009 16:43:44 +0000 GMT

Hi Kayla

Sam can build you a setup with the Breath Pipe going to a different controller than 17 if you want, though I'm not sure that will do what you want. MIDI doesn't really have the capacity to be as expressive as our native instruments. Interesting alternatives are to load your Tin Whistle AU instrument into the EigenD host, which allows you to route control information freely, or to try a tin whistle Soundfont. If you use Sams Custom 2 (download from here) setup, this has sampler 2 set to use the breath pipe, I suspect that may work well for you. If you have a nice tin whistle sample in another sampler format, CdXtract (available here) can usually convert it to Soundfont for you.

John


written by: steveelbows

Thu, 3 Dec 2009 17:36:36 +0000 GMT

I have posted various rambling thoughts about controlling instruments via midi breath in the thread about a Saxophone instrument, I wont repeat them here but I will summarise my thoughts:

http://www.eigenlabs.com/forum/threads/id/127/?page=1

In a nutshell you are better off with EigenD's native stuff, as John is talking about, or at least using a software instrument via mid that has been designed to use breath control. Experimenting with wiring up midi cc17 to various different parameters of synth & sampler-based instruments can also yield pleasing results if you find the right combo.

Im not sure aftertouch messages are suitable for your needs, but maybe it would work, I havent really tried that, it doesnt sound like a perfect fit. In future I would anticipate that Eigenlabs will offer setups that output midi a bit differently to the present, or a future version of the software that supports scripting will make it possible for us to do this ourselves. This will help if you need a specific sort of midi message to be sent via breath to your software instrument, eg some instruments are setup to listen for breath on the standard midi cc that is reserved for breath, rather than cc17, but this isnt a complete solution in that it does not magically fix all instruments so they can be played in the way we expect with breath.


written by: steveelbows

Thu, 3 Dec 2009 17:43:48 +0000 GMT

And in terms of the rest of the stuff that pico currently sends via midi, from memory I think the strip controller sends cc16, keys up/down are fixed to pitch, bending keys to the left sends mod. This is fine for some scenarios, although I am looking forward to being able to send stuff via moving keys to the right, send something other than pitch with up/down, and also get some sort of midi by breathing in as well as out. From previous discussions on the forum, this should be possible at some point, though in some cases the devil is in the detail (I am waiting for scriptable version of EigenD before exploring this stuff again in more detail).


written by: KaylaK

Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:29:46 +0000 GMT

Thank you both very much for such detailed responses!

I will pass on this info to Nigel this evening as we're back in the studio - basically we were hoping to use the EigenHarp as a MIDI controller for recording through Pro Tools (Nigel is a Digidesign Certified Instructor and we do everything there!), and we wanted to use the Pico on a track on the album using Pro Tools' Software Instruments ~ a bit of a tall order possibly but it was worth a go!

John - thanks for the really useful information ... hopefully will get to see you next week anyway to have a chat and to say well done so far! I am so very excited about the potential of the EigenHarp and am already inundated with requests to play it live at my next shows so it'll be on the road "up North" once I'm proficient on it :)

I'm not so hot with all the programming end of things so I'm sure all the suggestions that you have given are spot on, so I'll be bringing them with me to the studio tonight for dissemination :)

Thank you again for such a fast response!

Kayla


written by: geert

Thu, 3 Dec 2009 19:35:10 +0000 GMT

Kayla, you actually don't need to use Bidule as a plugin, you can run it also as a standalone application and it creates virtual MIDI ports. So you can route the Pico MIDI output to it, remap whatever message you want, and then output again to another virtual Bidule port.


written by: mikemilton

Fri, 5 Mar 2010 22:22:20 +0000 GMT

Actually, while mapping the controller isn;t a huge challenge it is a cluge... As the owner of a VL1 and WX5 I would *definitely* appreciate the ability to have breath delivered to midi (and to AU's) as, well, breath (ie: controller 2). This would make my life a *lot* easier dealing with all my legacy equipment and patches.

As an aside, the VL1 uses cc16/17 for key real-time controls. It would be nice to have a setup that mapped the strip(s) to these.

I suspect that you will see a growing number of WX/EWI players expressing an interest in the Eigenharp

cheers, m



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