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written by: NothanUmber

What you can do is to host Kontakt in an external host and route Midi from EigenD to it - if you have a sound card with several virtual outputs that can be mixed to one. (haven't tried Kontakt for some time now but can't remember that there were problems - might have to try it again)

written by: niksilver

Sun, 25 Nov 2012 23:07:51 +0000 GMT

I've just installed Kontakt 5 Player (Windows 7 64 bit) and am having trouble getting the EigenD plugin scanner to pick up its VSTs. EigenD runs in "Program Files (x86)" indicating it's a 32 bit application. If I point the plugin scanner to the "Native Instruments\VSTPlugins 32 bit" folder the entire scan fails -- i.e. none of my VSTs get picked up. If I point the plugin scanner to the "Native Instruments\VSTPlugins 64 bit" folder the scan runs fine (my existing VSTs are found) but the particular VSTs in the "VSTPlugins 64 bit" folder fail.

I have successfully activated the "Kontakt Factory Selection", which is the content pack for Kontakt 5 Player.

Could anyone with more experience of these things suggest a few other things to try?

Thanks a lot.


written by: john

Mon, 26 Nov 2012 08:02:55 +0000 GMT

Hi Nik

EigenD is a 32 bit application at present. This means that it can run 32bit VST's but not 64bit VST's. We may, now that the number of 64 bit VST's has increased substantially, introduce a 64bit EigenD at some point., but bear in mimd that you cannot run 32bit VST's jn a 64bit host so it's a binary choice. A lot of our players use plugins that are still 32bit only, so it a change that means we'd have to support two complete different releases for, which is a lot of work, work that will just detract from other developments. I'm more minded just to switch to 64bit only when the time is right to be honest, and I'm not convinced it is quite yet. We do discuss this fairly frequently in the dev team and the last time we did the consensus was 'wait a bit yet'.

Several companies out there (Bitwig, jBridge) are attempting to solve this problem by running the VST's in a separate process, so that 32bit VST's can be supported from a 64bit application. This is seriously complicated and has implications for latency that lead us to think it's not a great idea in a live performance system. It's probably very usable in a DAW, where you don't care about a few extra milliseconds of latency, but we do and so far we haven't been able to figure out how to remove that issue. Given that it involves running VSTs in a separate process, I'm not sure that it is solvable, but there may be a clever way that we haven't figured out. Anyone out there with a good idea, I'm all ears.

John


written by: niksilver

Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:25:22 +0000 GMT

Hi John

Many thanks for that overview. From my point of view as non-power-user I have no concerns at all about EigenD as 32 bit only only on Windows. I think I'd also be fine with it as 64 bit only if you were to make that decision. I am personally happier that you put your development efforts into other areas rather than writing and supporting 32 and 64 bit versions.

Kontakt 5 Player has both 32 bit and 64 bit VSTs. I didn't expect the 64 bit VSTs to load (but I tried it anyway), and indeed the plugin scanner failed to load them.

The puzzling failure was than when I included the 32 bit VSTs directory in the plugin scanner's list, not only did those VSTs fail to load, but the entire scan failed. It just said "Scan failed" and both its "Failed plugins" and "Good plugins" list was empty.

I'm sure there is a simple explanation/fix, but I'm out of ideas.


written by: john

Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:39:58 +0000 GMT

Hi Nik

Just to follow up, it looks like there might also be a problem with the plugin scanner and Kontakt in the latest release, we'll look into it this week and let you know what we find.

John


written by: niksilver

Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:44:50 +0000 GMT

Hi John

Many thanks -- for speed of response and information. Do contact me offline if I can be of help to you.

Nik


written by: geert

Mon, 26 Nov 2012 09:53:37 +0000 GMT

Hi Nik,

I've been experimenting since your report and initially had the same problem you mentioned, ie. the scan failed when adding the NI 32 bit plugins folder and no other VSTs were detected either. That's when John answered for the second time.

In the meantime, I noticed that I had an older version of Guitar Rig and ran Service Center to update it. Now that that's done, everything works again with the plugins detection of EigenD. Sadly, I don't really have an idea about what changed, maybe Guitar Rig was broken, maybe running a newer installer fixed some permission problems in the NI installation, maybe something else. Regrettably now I can't reproduce your issue anymore either, but I'll continue having a look at it for a little longer.

Maybe try running Service Center and see if there's anything ready to upgrade and do those? Otherwise maybe try reinstalling Kontakt Player from the latest installer.

Please let us know if this helped.

Take care,

Geert


written by: niksilver

Mon, 26 Nov 2012 14:08:05 +0000 GMT

Hi Geert

Thanks for trying all that. I've gone through many steps, including uninstalling and reinstalling Kontakt Player and the Factory Selection and making sure everything is still up to date. Still the same problem.

I also tried making the Kontakt 32 bit VST folder the only one in the Plugin Scanner's list, to no avail.

Let me know if you're interested in receiving a log file or something.

Cheers
Nik


written by: geert

Tue, 27 Nov 2012 20:33:11 +0000 GMT

Hi Nik,

Sadly the scanner doesn't record log file information, so that will not help. I've been looking at it for quite a few hours today, but sadly still can't reproduce it anymore. I have a similar, but not quite the same, issue I can reproduce with the internal development version of EigenD, which did give me some ideas.

If possible I'd like you to try three things:

* just reboot your machine (in case you leave it on or sleeping all the time)
* copy the VST .dll files from "Native Instruments\VSTPlugins 32 bit" to another folder, like "Steinberg\VST" or "Eigenlabs\VST" and re-run the scan without the NI in the paths
* try with another VST host and see if it works with the Native Instruments path

Geert


written by: niksilver

Tue, 27 Nov 2012 21:10:03 +0000 GMT

Thanks, Geert, I will try those things.

And please remember, all the good people of the Eigenharp community depend on you scattering your goodness widely, so please don't spend any more time on this very narrow problem. After all, it's only a free player; it might be different if I'd spent money on it. I am happy to have some suggestions, and will report back for posterity.

Best
Nik


written by: niksilver

Tue, 27 Nov 2012 23:01:10 +0000 GMT

For the record, in case anyone else has inspiration or is looking to see if their problem matches this one...
* Rebooting make no difference
* Putting the Kontakt VSTs in Programe Files (x86)\Eigenlabs\VST makes no difference
* Kontakt does load and play in VSTHost


written by: geert

Tue, 27 Nov 2012 23:27:30 +0000 GMT

Thanks for testing that Nik, I have some other leads, but I'll have to discuss them with Jim tomorrow. He know the inner workings of Windows much better than me.


written by: niksilver

Wed, 28 Nov 2012 08:46:34 +0000 GMT

Thanks, Geert, that's appreciated. But I do hope you're spending time on this in order to make EigenD a better product, and not just to resolve one user's problems. From my POV this problem is quite minor in the grand scheme of things.


written by: aktiur

Mon, 26 May 2014 23:38:19 +0100 BST

Hello everyone,

I'm having the exact same problem one and a half years later. I also downloaded the last version of Native Instruments Kontakt Player (currently 5.3.1.37) and tried loading the 32-bit VST plugin in EigenD 2.0.74. The scan failed outright.

I also tried the three things suggested by Geert and none worked.

Has a solution been found for this problem? Any ideas to solve it?

Arthur


written by: NothanUmber

Tue, 27 May 2014 09:17:43 +0100 BST

What you can do is to host Kontakt in an external host and route Midi from EigenD to it - if you have a sound card with several virtual outputs that can be mixed to one. (haven't tried Kontakt for some time now but can't remember that there were problems - might have to try it again)



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