This is the new Forum section for the discussion of Workbench related issues, including using it to build setups, problems you are having with it etc..
John
written by: john
Sorry to be a bore, but I just have to say that this is really unsupported. As in, if by some miracle it does work, it might not in the next version. Particularly as this is one of the areas we plan to work on next... Please bear that in mind if experimenting.This is the new Forum section for the discussion of Workbench related issues, including using it to build setups, problems you are having with it etc..
John
Wondering if we will have the ability to save/load rigs into Workbench-based setups? Creating small setups is not a issue with Workbench. But to recreate larger setups, similar in functionality to the Factory Setups pre-v2.0 would be cumbersome. If so, is this on plan for 2.0?
Randy
Being able to separately save and load Rigs is not on the list for 2.0. A lot of the work was done as part of 2.0 (Rigs were only introduced two weeks before first release, so they only just made it btw) to make this possible (in particular Jim made the Rigs have separate setup storage) but as ever making it suitable for general use is a lot more work and will have to wait until 2.1 or 2.2.
In case you're wondering quite why it's 'a lot more work' it's due to the Belcanto and Talkers. These bring a lot of power to EigenD but they are essentially a separate system to the connections that one manipulates and manages in Workbench. Because Belcanto behaves in a different way to connections it brings some very neat things, like being able to have a Talker phrase that effectively reaches inside every Rig and affects the Scalers in those Rigs. The price paid for that is that in order to have Rigs dynamically pluggable every Talker that might affect the contents of that Rig (in either the coming or going version as it's reloaded) must be re-evaluated (remember that they run fast, so that re-evaluation does quite a bit of slow work and can't just happen every time you use one). This is complicated, probably error prone and we don't have the time to do this for 2.0.
John
You can somehow "trick" Workbench into importing ricks. E.g. I added a new empty rig to the alpha example 1 setup and copied "example alpha 2 ~ Modular Synth#rig1" to "example alpha 1 ~ Partial Factory Setup#rig7" (or "user X ~ mytestsetup#rig7" as it might be called after saving it as a user setup). Now the content of the previously empty rig was replaced with the modular synth rig from the second example setup when reloading the setup.
Not sure how that reacts in the scenario of talkers John described - is the evaluation of the Belcanto phrases stored in the setup or is a reevaluation at least happening everytime a setup is loaded? In the latter case the "copy approach" might perhaps even be a viable intermediate solution.
All the best,
Ferdinand
Talkers are set up only once, when the talker is set up.
If you copy rigs in this way, you might get spurious actions.
The only way this would be safe would be to clear any talkers that refer to the inside of rigs before copying the file.
Stage widgets pointing at the inside of a rig will also cause problems.
Jim
Just to clarify this - Talkers need to be re-evaluated manually at the moment if anything that they refer to changes. You can safely delete things a Talker is referring to but if you add new things that it ought to be talking about after its been created you need to remake it for it to 'see' them. We'll put this in the upcoming Talker tutorial.
Changing a Rig's contents deletes the targets of Talkers without the underlying process that makes it safe. It also messes with Stage connections. Both of these things might well make EigenD crash later, amongst other things, so I don't think its a good idea to unload a Rig at the moment. You might get away with it if you don't have any Talkers that refer to it at the time you unload it, and no Stage connections, but that's quite hard to be sure about.
We have plans to change this behaviour to make loading and unloading Rigs possible, probably for 2.1 or 2.2 - we'll keep you posted.
John
So the no-go seems to be to replace existing, nonempty rigs.
Perhaps at least the approach to add an empty rig and replace this would be safe then? (Given that no talker nor Stage control can refer to a just-created-and-empty rig)
Edit: Presuambly you'd have to add another constraint "...as long as the imported rig does not contain any talkers itself..."
Yes. if you created a new rig of your own, and saved before making any talker or stage references to it, then it should be safe to import in the way you describe.
Jim
Sorry to be a bore, but I just have to say that this is really unsupported. As in, if by some miracle it does work, it might not in the next version. Particularly as this is one of the areas we plan to work on next... Please bear that in mind if experimenting.
John
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