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Software: 14 bit MIDI

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written by: barnone

The new Midi Configuration Settings are amazing BTW.

Fantastic job there.

Was just playing with using a range of channels for polyphonic stuff and sending per note CC values polyphonically, then mapping that to Kyma. Seems to actually be working which gives me hope that I can map all the poly Eigenharp expression to params in KYMA. We'll see.

written by: mikemilton

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 14:20:41 +0000 GMT

I'm (trying to) experiment with sending 14bit midi from the Alpha to a Moog Voyager (or to a MP201 for conversion to control voltage).

Be warned, this is probably a dumb post because the Moog equipment is new to me and although I've RTFM'ed much is left to be absorbed.

All the voyager pots send 14bit MIDI CCs and which can be seen in MIDI Monitor

Outbound the routing is EigenD > MIDI Pipe > 01x MIDI DIN OUT > Voyager MIDI DIN IN

First, 7 bit MIDI works just fine.

When I select 14 bit (and check that the MSB/LSB matches what the voyager is sending), there is a 'backup' in playing... everything seems to happen, but well after the control input. Decimating the signal makes no difference.

MIDI Monitor seems to show that the MIDI stream is delivered in a timely fashion (spying on the output) so it would seem that the Voyager isn't happy processing the stream for some reason other than load.

So, here are my questions:
- am I missing anything obvious :)

- is anyone using 14 bit cc's sucessfully

- should MSB/LSB always be paired (they are not in the stream and I'm not sure what the MIDI spec requires). It makes sense to me that the MSB should only have to change but I notice that in the stream from the voyager they are *always* paired


written by: geert

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:12:38 +0000 GMT

Hi Mike,

14 bit is sorely under supported, I yet have to find some gear that correctly uses it. Granted I haven't spent much time on it, but apart from checking in MIDI monitor and Bidule for correctness, I haven't been able to do much with it.

Yes, MSB/LSB is always supposed to be paired, at least that's how I understand the spec.

I'll try to spend more time of finding practical usages for the 14 bit data and report back.

Sorry that I can't be of more help at this time, maybe someone else can.

Take care,

Geert


written by: mikemilton

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:24:25 +0000 GMT

Well, EigenD does not appear to pair them. Here is some MidiMonitor info:


10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 71
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 87
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 95
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 87
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 95
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 87
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 79
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 87
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 79
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 87
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 79
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 71
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 87
10:00:30.100 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 79
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 71
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 79
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 71
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 71
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 71
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.111 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 79
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 71
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 79
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 71
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 71
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 71
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 55
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 55
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 71
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 55
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 55
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 55
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 55
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 55
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 55
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 71
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 55
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 55
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 55
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 63
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 55
10:00:30.123 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.135 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 47
10:00:30.135 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5
10:00:30.135 To 01X:3 Control 1 59 55
10:00:30.135 To 01X:3 Control 1 27 5


written by: mikemilton

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:27:20 +0000 GMT

The voyager does seem to accept them (14bit ccs) nicely from their editing program. It certainly sends them. That said, it really does not like the stream above.


written by: geert

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:39:42 +0000 GMT

Hmmm, that sounds like a bug, I'll take a look at it. Which version are you running?


written by: mikemilton

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:47:07 +0000 GMT

Just as an aside, this all woks great as long as one sticks to 7bit midi...

If anyone wants to try it here is one example

Patch: Tasty Moog Bass
attach yaw to mod
attach filter cutoff (cc19) to breath (or whatever, say pressure) and set the base to 40ish

Very playable / nicely expressive...


written by: mikemilton

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:47:20 +0000 GMT

3.16


written by: geert

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 16:09:05 +0000 GMT

You're using the MIDI outs, right? Looking at it now, seeing if I can find what's happening.


written by: mikemilton

Sat, 19 Mar 2011 16:26:36 +0000 GMT

MIDI out 1, what you see above is a MIDIMonitor dump spying on the output to the Voyager. I get the same kind of datastream directly from Eigenlabs 1 (just checked).


written by: mikemilton

Sun, 20 Mar 2011 19:13:13 +0000 GMT

Interesting news - it was a bug, Geert had a look at it and provided me a pre-release to test and it is now squashed and ready for inclusion in the next release.

As always a great response from Eigenlabs and, particularly from Geert

Thanks, m

Oh and here is some inconclusive data from some initial measures... thoughts?

http://eigenharps.blogspot.com/2011/03/moog-front-panel-pot-vs-alpha-14bit-cc.html

Here is the clickable version


written by: tefman3d

Sat, 26 Mar 2011 06:55:35 +0000 GMT

FYI, guys

A servo controller from yost engineering listens to 14 bit midi cc

works to make the servo response much finer, excellent really.

Will try 8 servos w/the next release.

Best -Stefman


written by: barnone

Fri, 20 May 2011 15:38:58 +0100 BST

@mikemilton

So this works with the Voyager now?

The reason I ask is that working with Symbolic Sound on 14-bit support for KYMA.

I can see from my output and also from geert that Eigenharp sends LSB then MSB ordering.

The stupid midi spec doesn't clarify the proper ordering so there are two variants.

Unfortunately the people on the KYMA forum who want this, we have devices that use the opposite ordering.

What a nightmare. midi FAIL.



written by: geert

Fri, 20 May 2011 15:58:57 +0100 BST

Here's a good reason why to send MSB last, to make sure that it is used for MIDI learn when 14 bit is sent for controls that only support 7 bit. Maybe that helps.


written by: mikemilton

Fri, 20 May 2011 16:15:53 +0100 BST

Yes, it works on the Voyager although I tend to use it with the MP201 Midi>CV which lets one switch off smoothing.

And, yes, the one good thing about MIDI is that things are agreed on... except this


written by: barnone

Fri, 20 May 2011 18:43:42 +0100 BST

The new Midi Configuration Settings are amazing BTW.

Fantastic job there.

Was just playing with using a range of channels for polyphonic stuff and sending per note CC values polyphonically, then mapping that to Kyma. Seems to actually be working which gives me hope that I can map all the poly Eigenharp expression to params in KYMA. We'll see.



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