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Software: Breath triggering

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written by: mikemilton

Ok - you were absolutely correct. The WX5 sends a note on once the breath control passes some threshold and after enough samples to derive a velocity (much like the Eigenharp keys respond to pressure). It sends a note off when the BC reaches 0. If you play legato it sends note offs and note ons within the stream of BC values.

Here is an example of simply blowing with no keys touched:

08:33:47.572 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 8
08:33:47.573 From MP-201 Multipedal Note On 1 C#3 13
08:33:47.587 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 11
08:33:47.611 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 13
08:33:47.628 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 15
08:33:47.646 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 18
08:33:47.658 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 21
08:33:47.669 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 22
08:33:47.681 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 24
08:33:47.693 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 27
08:33:47.711 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 30
08:33:47.722 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 31
08:33:47.734 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 33
08:33:47.740 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 35
08:33:47.752 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 37
08:33:47.764 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 39
08:33:47.775 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 41
08:33:47.787 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 44
08:33:47.799 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 46
08:33:47.811 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 48
08:33:47.823 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 51
08:33:47.834 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 52
08:33:47.840 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 55
08:33:47.852 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 57
08:33:47.858 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 59
08:33:47.870 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 61
08:33:47.887 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 63
08:33:47.917 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 60
08:33:47.923 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 56
08:33:47.929 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 53
08:33:47.935 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 50
08:33:47.941 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 45
08:33:47.947 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 39
08:33:47.952 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 34
08:33:47.958 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 29
08:33:47.964 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 24
08:33:47.970 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 19
08:33:47.976 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 15
08:33:47.982 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 11
08:33:47.988 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 7
08:33:47.994 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 4
08:33:48.000 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 0
08:33:48.000 From MP-201 Multipedal Note Off 1 C#3 0

written by: 0beron

Tue, 1 Mar 2011 15:41:51 +0000 GMT

I've been wondering about the breath pipe on the various eigenharps - it works nicely as a continuous controller or when attached to AU parameters, but I can't see a way to get the breath controller to control note onset, ie be able to re trigger the envelopes etc of a downstream synth plugin, and maybe send some kind of velocity value based on the steepness of the first few breath samples above a threshold. The clarinet physical model sort of has this behaviour built in, but is there currently no way of doing this for samplers, AUs and midi?

Is it something that is being worked on as part of the 'articulator' agent I've heard mentioned before?


written by: mikemilton

Tue, 1 Mar 2011 16:06:54 +0000 GMT

Interesting question. I'd be quite interested to know when and how you would apply that.

Every electronic wind instrument I've come across uses something other than breath pressure to trigger notes (such as the keys on a WX5 or sensors on the EWI). Also, I've had good luck playing VL hardware and various softsynths designed for wind with the eigenharps. In fact, many patches need a variety of breath pressure values at trigger time to change the attack or articulation.

cheers, m


written by: geert

Tue, 1 Mar 2011 16:25:25 +0000 GMT

Hi 0beron,

This is going to be part of the Strummer where any control signal can be used to trigger notes and their envelopes. We'll resume work on the strummer next week, we're currently doing a very profound sweep-through effort to optimize the performance of EigenD.

Take care,

Geert


written by: 0beron

Mon, 7 Mar 2011 15:37:43 +0000 GMT

@mikemilton

I'm fairly sure the WX5 does trigger on breath - ie if you articulate a note, then reduce breath pressure to zero, then articulate another it send a new MIDI note-on even if you haven't moved your fingers, whereas on the eigenharp, on anything other than the built in clarinet and cello, you have to release and re-press a key on the keyboard to start a new note even if it is modulated somehow by breath?


written by: mikemilton

Mon, 7 Mar 2011 16:32:35 +0000 GMT

hmmm... interesting. Well, we could surely check this with midimonitor.

My thinking was that the patches accomodate this (among other things, because my VL1 plays nicely with the eigenharp). Also wouldn't one expect a physical model to act this way (even in the absence of a note on)?.

Time for a bit of testing next time I have it out (smile)

As an aside, thanks for the Kerry Whistle recommendation, I really like it.

m


written by: 0beron

Tue, 8 Mar 2011 03:06:00 +0000 GMT

The way the physical models work is great, very playable, but I was wondering if something like the strummer agent could help make AUs and samplers just as controllable. Will have to see how it turns out.


written by: mikemilton

Tue, 8 Mar 2011 13:47:38 +0000 GMT

Ok - you were absolutely correct. The WX5 sends a note on once the breath control passes some threshold and after enough samples to derive a velocity (much like the Eigenharp keys respond to pressure). It sends a note off when the BC reaches 0. If you play legato it sends note offs and note ons within the stream of BC values.

Here is an example of simply blowing with no keys touched:

08:33:47.572 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 8
08:33:47.573 From MP-201 Multipedal Note On 1 C#3 13
08:33:47.587 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 11
08:33:47.611 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 13
08:33:47.628 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 15
08:33:47.646 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 18
08:33:47.658 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 21
08:33:47.669 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 22
08:33:47.681 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 24
08:33:47.693 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 27
08:33:47.711 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 30
08:33:47.722 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 31
08:33:47.734 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 33
08:33:47.740 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 35
08:33:47.752 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 37
08:33:47.764 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 39
08:33:47.775 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 41
08:33:47.787 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 44
08:33:47.799 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 46
08:33:47.811 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 48
08:33:47.823 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 51
08:33:47.834 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 52
08:33:47.840 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 55
08:33:47.852 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 57
08:33:47.858 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 59
08:33:47.870 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 61
08:33:47.887 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 63
08:33:47.917 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 60
08:33:47.923 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 56
08:33:47.929 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 53
08:33:47.935 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 50
08:33:47.941 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 45
08:33:47.947 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 39
08:33:47.952 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 34
08:33:47.958 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 29
08:33:47.964 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 24
08:33:47.970 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 19
08:33:47.976 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 15
08:33:47.982 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 11
08:33:47.988 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 7
08:33:47.994 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 4
08:33:48.000 From MP-201 Multipedal Control 1 Breath Control (coarse) 0
08:33:48.000 From MP-201 Multipedal Note Off 1 C#3 0



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