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Hi Randy

The EigenD UI is about to go through some very large changes. We've spent the last year working on both Stage and Workbench and over the next few months we think these will transform the way that people interact with the software in very significant ways. This change is so profound that any existing documentation, while remaining valid (as the Belcanto language remains at the heart of the system) will become largely irrelevant to the normal player. Knowing that this change is coming has meant that it really hasn't been worthwhile producing a structured manual, it would be going out of date at a rate that we would struggle to keep up with..

At the heart of the changes is the strong desire to make the whole system (which is considerably richer than most people are aware of) more discoverable in itself by providing a graphical overview of all the components and they ways they are connected, reducing the need for documentation in general. As soon as we've done some proper field testing of both Stage and Workbench, and allowed them to evolve a little in this environment then I think it will be time to start to document these properly with a formal manual. The cost of producing nicely written and formatted docs is high, and we won't be doing this for the new style of UI until it is sufficiently stable, probably early next year. By that point we will also be reshooting all our tutorial videos as well, which is also a very expensive process and one we only want to do once as a result.

An early version of Stage is due to make it into the current 1.2.X series (Unstable at the moment) in the next week or two, so these changes are not as far away as you might imagine. All feedback will be appreciated when it does, and if you're interested in signing up for the iPhone/iPad tester group please let Aaron know in customer services in the next week or so as this will be a restricted group of people due to the rather insane way that Apple apps work - we can't have more than a few testers at one time and we have to know who they'll be in advance of compiling the app. Workbench will be a little longer as it's scheduled for the 2.0.X series, late this year or early 2011. We are about to start testing it internally for real though, so it has now moved beyond the status of vaporware.

In the longer run we envisage that the principal way that people will learn the Eigenharp, how to play, change and adapt it to suit themselves will be through lessons rather than a manual. There is a subset of people who are very happy to self teach using documentation (and it sounds like you're in that group) but this is not as common as you'd imagine. Quite a lot of our effort has been going into developing the teaching side of Eigenlabs over the last couple of months. The online seminars are our first foray, and you will see further things happening on this front over time.

So, in short, please bear with us. We know that the current documentation is unstructured but there are very good reasons for this. In the next few months you will experience some large changes in EigenD that will make this apparent, changes that I think you'll really enjoy.

John

I am VERY excited to see this new version

The EigenD UI is about to go through some very large changes.....

First I think it's completely understandable why there hasn't been formal documentation up until now (and for a while yet still). I would though like to take issue with the statement Apart from the fact that it must be very difficult to collect relevant and accurate statistics to support such a statement, I think it oversimplifies how people actually learn. I don't have any supporting statistics on this either, but my experience is that it is generally through a number of different approaches running together, not an 'either / or'. I can speak about my own approach to learning and it involves variously: professional lessons, video lessons, self-teaching and reading documentation. Yes, the last of these is still an important component. I stick pdfs of relevant documents on my ipad and read them on planes and trains etc., but just because I find this useful, does not classify me as one of the 'subclass of people who are happy to self-teach'.

Personally I think the present wiki documentation is an incredibly poor form of communication and in sharp contrast to the quality of the instruments and the support offered by the Eigenlabs team. I think it is an understandably weak point at the moment, but I think it would be disappointing if it was perpetuated long beyond the point when reasonably stable documentation became feasible.

Nick

Hi Nick

You are of course quite correct that the broader the range of available learning tools the better. A structured, formal manual will be an important component of that and we will be developing one as we stabilise the new UI's. I would however stick by my statement that the availability of tuition is probably more important for many musicians than any amount of written material. It is not something we can ignore as a company. In the early days we didn't have much choice, we had to ignore it as there were simply no teachers or even players around (and I have to tell you that I have been asked about tuition many, many more times than I've been asked about written documentation over the last year). This is now changing and I think this will become a very significant part of the learning experience for new players.

But as you point out, the learning experience also varies dramatically from person to person. When I put you in the 'happy to self teach using documentation' bracket, I was actually lumping you in with me (which I hope doesn't constitute an insult!). I play the guitar reasonably well and have never had a single lesson on that instrument. I personally always prefer to disappear off somewhere and figure things out for myself rather than seek tuition. I do dislike most documentation though, it's nearly always rubbish and for me the best software is discoverable software, software that is in effect self documenting. And here I must accept all criticism sent my way, because EigenD is not good at that at the moment. With the advent of Stage and Workbench I think you will see this start to change in a very positive way.

By the way, all help is always appreciated on the Wiki front. If you can contribute to it to help make it better, that's always seriously appreciated. We're a small company and we don't have infinite resources - any help at all from you guys is a big plus in making the Eigenharps easier to learn.

John

John

Yes I guess we're saying the same thing. I hate manuals but consider them a necessary evil. That's why I read them when I've got dead time like when I'm traveling. I also completely understand why the documentation is in fluid form right now. I do think though that to supplement whatever learning approach different poeple take, a manual will become important. We shouldn't get into the kind of false dichotomy so beloved by politicians - lessons are good so manuals are bad. They do different things and both are important. As for the wiki, I don't like the format because it lacks a narrative structure, and it''s not really portable, but maybe that's just me.

Nick

Welcome to the wonderful world of being on the bleeding edge of technology. I jumped into the pool knowing that the level of documentation was suboptimal and that the user community would be growing and learning right along with me. That's part of the adventure. I look forward to the next version of the UI, and being able to access control functions without an in-depth knowledge of Belcanto!

Thanks for everything!
Pat

For the instrument part lessons may be the best way. But the Eigenharp is also a piece of hardware and a piece of software and these need manuals. I like seminars, but lets face it if you have a certain level of knowledge you want a reference to look things up quickly and not a video where somebody explains almost, but not quite the thing you need. Also I read faster than most people talk. Also I can skim documentation for keywords. But for a 20 minutes video I need 20 minutes (uninterrupted) time to at least know what it is about. With all the hello, how are you and nice to see you again and stuff like that.
I hate the 4 Pico tutorial videos, because it is quite cumbersome to find the place again where the feature I am currently interested in is explained, there is no table of content, no index, not much indication in which video it may be. So I have to write stuff down, to have my manual. Because I need one.
By the way you are aware that there are and will be more non-native-English speaking Eigenharp users, who will have more problems understanding a person talking English quite fast like the tutorial guy or mumbling like the guys in the justin.tv videos, but are quite capable of reading English text?
Oh and yes concerning lessons, how much chance do I have to get a certified teacher in Zurich, Switzerland any time soon? Probably not likely, so until Eigenharps are as established as pianos, maybe a manual? Yes I know about the lessons over skype, but that's not an adequate instrument lesson either.
So the short of it: You need manuals, there is no way around it. It is ok not to have them now at the bleeding edge, but please do not talk yourself out at providing them some time in the future (soon).

Hi Guys,

I have to stick up here for the idea of a technical manual.

My Pico sits unused, If I had a manual I could peruse I am absolutely sure the Pico would be used.

When I got it I watched the videos, struggled with the booklet and then just gave it up as a bad deal.

The Pico itself I love, it feels nice, the level of control is good etc.

Unfortunately when trying to set things up to work differently I just hit a wall, I re-watched the videos and then immediately forget everything again, after a while this was soul destroying and the poor little thing got placed on a shelf.

I am hoping one day a manual appears and I can dust it off, you never know if I got used to it I may but one of it's bigger brothers then.

Cheers

Andy

I rarely read or post these days - just in an idle moment. The instruments are brilliant, but Eigenlabs stands out as pretty much the only music software company I can think of that doesn't produce a reference manual. Many go to great lengths, and take great pride, in making these as user-friendly as possible. However, I conclude from his postings the chairman has a philosophical antipathy to the idea (I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong!) and that will probably mean it won't happen whatever the clamour from users.
Nick

@0beron
This time you summed the whole thing about the manuals, I agree with you 100%.

keyman