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General Discussion: Fixing Cello in setup "pico 1" under El Capitan

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written by: GoneCaving

Nope, I'm running Mavericks (work laptop, and some tedious dependencies that make me reluctant to switch), hence I have both /usr/pi and /usr/local/pi.

Because the community release only manages the software and setups, and not the data in the resource bundle, we've only been able to fix the installation of this to /usr/local. So installing the resource bundle on El Cap will place it in /usr/pi (or fail due to the restrictions on /usr?). The resource bundle is what has Alchemy, loops, impulseresponse etc.

Anyway, glad you've got your cello back :-)

written by: earthspot

Thu, 16 Jun 2016 01:08:36 +0100 BST

One of the glories of EigenD (setup "pico 1") was the realistic Cello sound. Unfortunately when I upgraded to 2.1.2-community under El Capitan, the Cello instrument sounded awful. I wrote it off as yet another casualty of El Capitan.

But today I found a way to restore Cello to its former glory (almost). If anyone else has suffered from the same problem, here's the fix (or at least: a fix):

Load factory setup "pico 1" and launch Stage.
Click the tab: Cello
You'll see two big knobs on the right of the dashboard, probably with these values:
Convolver Dry Gain = -4.9
Convolver Wet Gain = 16.7

Swap these values, i.e. to give:
Convolver Dry Gain = 16.7
Convolver Wet Gain = -4.9

Job done.

El Capitan exonerated, for once. But it makes me wonder if there's an underlying bug that this fix doesn't address. (A swapped plug connection in Workbench?)

Anyone who knows how the Cello rig works (I don't) -- pls give it a tune-up and tell us what you did. The "attack" phase sounds a little too buzzing for my liking.


written by: TheTechnobear

Fri, 17 Jun 2016 13:22:17 +0100 BST

this is interesting.
from memory ... the cello is a slight modified version of the stk instrument, then using a convolution reverb with a cello wave. (I think there are a coupe available)

I can't see why El Capitan would change this...
essentially the differences are
- a new version of Juce
- some bug fixes to the pico handler
- moving resources to /usr/local

the first two, I cannot see that they would make any difference.

but Im wondering, if the last might... e.g. I wonder if the con file is not being found due to it being moved. it should be ok, since I think eigenD use things relative to the resource directory,so if this was wrong, things like drum loops would fail.

in this vain, did you do an upgrade or a reinstall of EigenD and 10.11?
can you check the /usr/pi is now in /usr/local/pi
also, using workbench, you might want to try reselecting the convolution wave and save, perhaps this will 'update it' in the setup.


I can't think of anything that would affect the setup loading, only thing is the 'upgrade scripts' , but nothing has been added here afaik.... I'll need to check the change log on the convolved object, but honestly, I don't think this has been altered in a very long time.
(the midi and vst/au host have had a few changes over time)


the only other thing I can think of, is some external change, perhaps with your sound card (and el cap 'drivers') ... perhaps using a lower sample rate, though unlikely to make a huge difference.
do you think the buzzing is distortion, perhaps for some reason, the levels are too hot?

I'll try to give it a go, though honestly, Ive not used the cello for a long time, so I'm not sure if Id notice if it sounded different, unless it truly sounded awful as you say :)


written by: earthspot

Tue, 21 Jun 2016 02:04:59 +0100 BST

> did you do an upgrade or a reinstall of EigenD and 10.11?

I've done both – an upgrade and a fresh install of El Capitan.

For several months now I've been running my iMac on Snow Leopard (SL) – which I've reinstalled more than once from Time Machine, because each time I lost the use of too many vital apps and peripherals.

But I did a clean install of El Capitan (ElC) onto a Seagate-USB external hard disk, and reinstalled everything EigenD afresh from GitHub. I forget what I did about /usr/local/pi/ – I think I copied it manually under Unix using Apple Terminal from /usr/pi/ on the internal hard drive.

This lash-up worked very well for whatever I tried. Launching ElC from my Seagate-USB didn’t conspicuously poop over the SL disk [apart from occasionally corrupting aliases on my SL Desktop] and performed surprisingly well. I expected ElC to be slow, booted as it was from a USB drive.

Earlier this month I felt that at last I had viable alternatives to all my Snow Leopard (SL) stuff that didn't work on El Capitan (ElC), and (yet again) upgraded my internal hard drive – to ElC this time. Then I bought Logic Pro – which knackered my Camel Audio Alchemy plug-in (for reasons discussed elsewhere, which I was fully expecting).

Throughout all this, the rest of EigenD continued to work under SL as it always did – viz I had drum loops and all instruments including cello [and Alchemy!]. Frequently I kept trying cello: it worked fine under SL but sounded rough under ElC.

[Alchemy is a tale in itself, and I won’t digress into it in this thread.]

So I was led to assume that Cello worked under old EigenD, but didn’t (and never had done) in EigenD 2.1.2-community. That is, until I discovered my fix, of swapping values of wet and dry gain. Unfortunately upgrading my internal hard drive from SL to ElC has wiped a lot of the evidence I’d need to check my assumptions.

Crucial is this question: was I running 2.1.0-experimental or 2.1.2-community under SL? I have to confess I’ve forgotten. I’ve been blithely supposing the former, but the file timestamps and the contents of /2.1.0-experimental/log/ strongly suggest it was the latter.

A lot hangs on whichever it was.

However all is not lost. The old SL installation with its working Cello is still extant on my Time Machine disk, and I propose to reinstall it – but this time on the now-surplus Seagate-USB drive. Thus effectively reversing my two-horse lash-up I was running so successfully a month ago. I have no reason to suppose this won't work – and give me the old installation to compare in detail with the new one. Not side-by-side, but at least in quick succession.

Until I do that, I guess I’m not in a position to deal sensibly with your questions. But for now, here’s the best that I can say…

Yes, I’m satisfied /usr/local/pi is all there (on both my internal and Seagate-USB drives), and is the one EigenD uses.

/usr/pi/ is no longer there – and I suspect my recent ElC upgrade wiped it (I’ve no recollection of manually deleting it). The /usr/ directory now contains only directories: adic/ bin/ lib/ libexec/ local/ sbin/ share/ standalone/ X11/ (plus an alias: X11R6) – and I believe ElC locks /usr/ down for security reasons, and resists you adding things like user-written shell scripts.

I’ve opened Workbench to view the Cello rig, but I confess to being baffled by it. You suggest: "try reselecting the convolution wave and save" – but I can’t identify what entity you mean. When I open "convolver1" – I see (apart from numeric fields) only "impulse" – which has the contents: "None available". This suggests to me that "convolver1" is not what convolutes the pure tone with a cello wave, but only handles an impulse response (potentially, but not in actual use).

Then you go on to address the "buzzing" I mentioned. I might be imagining things, and maybe I’ve introduced a red-herring with this. Maybe I’ve restored the Cello rig to fully working order with my values-swap "fix", and mis-remember the quality of the authentic gritty Cello sound when I hit a key.

Originally when I got Cello back, I thought it might have been a simple typo during manual transcription of code, or manual replugging in Workbench. But from what you’re saying this is impossible. (And from what I’ve said above, too.) So I now feel I’ve stumbled over the tip of an iceberg, which might go some way to explaining other reported problems with EigenD under El Capitan. So I'm keen to get to the bottom of it.

Much will come clear when I bring SL back to life again. Which I need for a number of forensic reasons starting to emerge as I use my upgraded iMac more and more. Then I can compare what I see in Workbench with the Cello rig as it was back in SL days when it worked. I’ll report back when I do.


written by: GoneCaving

Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:45:19 +0100 BST

You suggest: "try reselecting the convolution wave and save" – but I can’t identify what entity you mean. When I open "convolver1" – I see (apart from numeric fields) only "impulse" – which has the contents: "None available". This suggests to me that "convolver1" is not what convolutes the pure tone with a cello wave, but only handles an impulse response (potentially, but not in actual use).


You're looking at the right agent, but you should see "cello_short_96" under Impulse (cello_long_96 and viola_1_96 should also be options). I have both the official release and also the community release installed on my laptop. It looks like the community release isn't installing the impulseresponse folder.

$ ls /usr/pi/impulseresponse/
cello_1.name cello_long_96.wav viola_1.name
cello_2.name cello_short_96.wav viola_1_96.wav

$ cd /usr/local/pi/impulseresponse
-bash: cd: /usr/local/pi/impulseresponse: No such file or directory


written by: GoneCaving

Tue, 21 Jun 2016 09:51:51 +0100 BST

Thinking about this, you probably need to install the official resource package, and then move the contents across to /usr/local/pi, since the missing files are not in the community release.


written by: earthspot

Tue, 21 Jun 2016 13:16:02 +0100 BST

Molodetz! @GoneCaving – you've fixed it!

After I last posted, I did what I said and last night re-installed Snow Leopard – and along with it, my functioning EigenD, the one with the good Cello.
…which was indeed release-2.1.0-experimental (I guess this is what you're calling the "official release")

I tried Cello in the old SL installation and it sounded good. Just as I remembered it.

On reading your post this morning, I zipped-up /usr/pi/impulseresponse/ and moved it into /usr/local/pi/ of my El Capitan drive – it was indeed absent.

Now, on launching EigenD + Workbench and editing convolver1 in cello rig, the "impulse" field no longer said "None available", but offered me choices.
…I chose cello_short_96.

I also reverted my unnecessary swap of wet/dry, restoring:
dry gain = -4.9
wet gain = 16.7

Hey-presto, the Cello sounded beautiful.

To be absolutely objective, I recorded (by ripping audio from the earphone socket into Audacity on a separate computer) the Cello under both Snow Leopard (2.1.0-experimental) and El Capitan (2.1.2-community). I can confirm they sound identical.

There seems to be quite a lot in /usr/local/pi that's missing from the old /usr/pi/. Notably stuff for the late-lamented Alchemy plug-in. I'll need to investigate it. Maybe I can get Alchemy working in both EigenD AND Logic Pro. Hey, now…!

I gather from what you say, that you've got full folders of both /usr/pi/ and /usr/local/pi/ running on the same MacBook (under El Capitan?)
If so, then what I said about El Capitan wiping /usr/pi/ must be duff gen.

So I wonder how I got a wiped /usr after upgrading to El Capitan? – JOOTT.

Anyway – I've got my Cello back. Many thanks @TechnoBear and @GoneCaving.


written by: earthspot

Tue, 21 Jun 2016 13:28:51 +0100 BST

----- I wrote -----
> There seems to be quite a lot in /usr/local/pi that's missing from the old /usr/pi/.

That should have been, of course,
"There seems to be quite a lot in the old /usr/pi that's missing from /usr/local/pi/."


written by: GoneCaving

Tue, 21 Jun 2016 15:20:11 +0100 BST

Nope, I'm running Mavericks (work laptop, and some tedious dependencies that make me reluctant to switch), hence I have both /usr/pi and /usr/local/pi.

Because the community release only manages the software and setups, and not the data in the resource bundle, we've only been able to fix the installation of this to /usr/local. So installing the resource bundle on El Cap will place it in /usr/pi (or fail due to the restrictions on /usr?). The resource bundle is what has Alchemy, loops, impulseresponse etc.

Anyway, glad you've got your cello back :-)



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