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General Discussion: Scale manager

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written by: keyman

My 2 cents… to the Voodoo.

I manage to "trick" EigenBrowser to show the scale selection AND cycle thru every scale with just one key (have to try using two keys to get up/down)

How? belcanto: scale manager 1 hey selection choose
one more action with above to each key inside talker.

If still in time, let me know i'll put setup in dropbox…


Some other thoughts;
STAGE would be my first choice to have access to many different scales on the fly, even 80 or so (even same PC/MAC no iPad around?)

written by: jeanlouis.papier

Fri, 1 May 2015 18:07:35 +0100 BST

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to modify the basic midi setup (the one under "experimental") through Workbench, to make something more adapted to my use.
I'd like to be able to browse through all scales in Eigenbrowser and change them directly from there, since I want to be able to have an "explorative" process, rather than just having a few pre-selected scales (which I now know how to do).

So I'm just having trouble understanding how to link the Scale Manager and the Scaler, I tried to copy some Belcanto stuff from other presets, and at some point it (maybe) seemed to work, but then not...

So my question is : in Workbench, what would be to right way to tell the Scaler to use the scale selected in the Scale Manager ?

Cheers !


written by: TheTechnobear

Sun, 3 May 2015 14:07:54 +0100 BST

ok, first to say this is possible to do BUT the belcanto required to do it is advanced.

the reason its advanced is due to the syntax of the eigenbrowser 'browse' command combined with the scale manager model.
essentially what you do is trigger the browse from one talker (e.g browser talker) to populate another talker to trigger that scale. (I don't think you can select the scale directly)

if your not up to advanced belcanto... stop reading here :)
and copy the stuff done in the factory setups,
which is basically
a) create scale manager
b) copy the scale talker (and its actions... you'll have to cut n paste them)
c) copy the global scale talker

- you could use Creator, but sorry I don't have time to explain that :(

if you want the belcanto explanation , here it is... but your eyes might glaze over :)


this is the command required to populate a talker with the the command to browse, and populate a second talker:

browser talk hey ' " empty join scale manager listen cancel variable scale 1 iyot choose when activation ` " empty join scale manager activation scale as scale 1 define scale talker hey 1 re do " do ` do eigenbrowser hey scale manager scale browse " do ' when 1 called 1 do

what actually fires is:
" empty join scale manager listen cancel variable scale 1 iyot choose when activation ` " empty join scale manager activation scale as scale 1 define scale talker hey 1 re do " do ` do eigenbrowser hey scale manager scale browse " do

which can be split down into :

a) empty join scale manager listen cancel variable scale 1 iyot choose when activation " X "
b) where X=empty join scale manager activation scale as scale 1 define
c) eigenbrowser hey scale manager scale browse

this says (a) scale manger when someone chooses something run X , where X is (b) which says define the variable scale 1, as the selected scale from (a) and populate the scale talker with it
and (c) says start browsing the scales in the scale manager ... which will allow the activation of (b)

all the iyot and various quotes are to do with scoping and timing , and beyond what I can explain easily here :)

I know it looks like voodoo, and to be honest, probably what we should do is allow browsing, compare this to midi output which is
eigenbrowser hey midi output midi port browse.

I think its not like this, as the current approach allows for multiple 'scale slots' to be populated, and selected quickly,
but it would be nice to have both options... perhaps one day I'll get around to coding it :)





written by: jeanlouis.papier

Thu, 7 May 2015 13:37:25 +0100 BST

Thanks a lot for the very complete answer !

Actually I've already tried to do as you say, copying the Belcanto actions (which I tried to understand, but as you said they're quite "advanced") from the factory setups, but couldn't get it to work correctly. But I noticed that I was missing the "global scale talker" agent, and couldn't create it either, so I got stuck there.

Also I noticed (I guess?) a typo in one of the actions in the factory setup:
" empty join scale manager activation scale as scalev8 define global scale talker hey 8 re do " do"

I'll give it another try with your instructions, keep you posted.

Cheers


written by: jeanlouis.papier

Sat, 9 May 2015 10:20:45 +0100 BST

It got me thinking... maybe the long list in the browser is not the most intuitive method, what about a simpler way to define scales, using stage and some belcanto script to add or remove notes to the scale ?
Of course we would lose the microtonal scales, but it would be more visual.
I've created a quick preview in stage to show what I'm thinking about.

Would that be doable in workbench ?

Scale Manager


written by: TheTechnobear

Sat, 9 May 2015 12:31:19 +0100 BST

as with most things... what is appropriate for one person, another will say is unacceptably simplified

the principle in EigenD is to allow 8 slots, which a user can populate with the ones they use most.... 8 presumably chosen as its convenient for the pico (and also splits on the tau/alpha), but its easy enough to extend this to N.

your approach, no this not possible as there is no way to build scales... (and more generally the 'arrays' it uses), it would not be that difficult to write an agent to do it however, and could be more 'generic', e.g. allowing you to pick notes from any arbitrary scale (e.g. your example is allowing sub selection from a chromatic scale, but it could be from any scale)

but to be honest, I use chromatic all the time anyway, so its not something ive got time/interest in building... and I'm also not convinced its more useful than the current 'slot' approach.
... like most things with software, because there are so many things you could change/improve, you have to 'pick your battles ' :)


one thing you could do, if your struggling with the browser, is to create your own talker, with lots of actions like
keygroup 1 hey scale to major set
keygroup 1 hey scale to minor set
keygroup 1 hey scale to chromatic set
keygroup 1 hey scale to [0,1,2,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12] set
etc.
this talker could then be activated from eigenharp or stage as you wish
if you dealing with a relatively small number (<20) of scales id say this would be pretty acceptable.
(also it become less workable if your on a tau/alpha and want lots of split variations)


written by: jeanlouis.papier

Sat, 9 May 2015 16:01:50 +0100 BST

OK, just wanted to grasp the possibilities of Belcanto/stage/workbench, it's not too easy for beginners to understand what can or can't be done.
I'll have a go with the first approach then, through eigenbrowser, thanks for the time answering my questions.


written by: keyman

Thu, 14 May 2015 02:56:38 +0100 BST

My 2 cents… to the Voodoo.

I manage to "trick" EigenBrowser to show the scale selection AND cycle thru every scale with just one key (have to try using two keys to get up/down)

How? belcanto: scale manager 1 hey selection choose
one more action with above to each key inside talker.

If still in time, let me know i'll put setup in dropbox…


Some other thoughts;
STAGE would be my first choice to have access to many different scales on the fly, even 80 or so (even same PC/MAC no iPad around?)



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