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General Discussion: Newbie questions from a (mostly) acoustic player.

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written by: 0beron

Thanks for posting my video geert :) I guess I should say a little about my playing style since it seems close to what SaxTX is going for -
I play the Alpha in its default chromatic mode almost all the time. This is for a reason that SaxTX touches on - that of having to change scale and key with menu buttons. Playing in the chromatic setting sacrifices some range in terms of number of octaves, but means you can get at any scale or key regardless. Playing complex chord changes is very doable, although not being a piano player I struggle with this (but the problem is very definitely in the player and not the instrument! )

The really nice thing about the chromatic layout is that it is 'isomorphic' - ie if you learn the finger pattern for a major, minor, pentatonic, blues, modal etc scale, then they translate into all keys with no modifications - compare this to a sax / EWI / yamaha WX controller where some scales are especially awkward.

I guess playing melody on the harp in chromatic mode is most similar to playing hammer-on on a guitar, except that the sensitivity of the keys let you achieve greater speed and allow a very light touch.

The fingerer mode is interesting - very programmable (I have written a definition file that attempts to emulate the yamaha wind controller fingering as I also play WX5). I think the fingerer setups would benefit most from some tuning not in the mechanics of the fingerings which are already very sophisticated, but more in the response and characteristics of the synth sound you control with it.

I have played my alpha in an ensemble environment very sucessfully , even a few times in the corner of an irish pub session (it's ok the people there know me and are prepared to put up with such things ;) )

written by: SaxTX

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 07:23:09 +0000 GMT

As a saxophone player, I have devoted years to developing a sound on the instrument that i find pleasing, and personal. Ive also spent time playing synthesizers, mostly the KORG M1, with a wind controller, and if it took me a month to find a sound that was musical, and expressive, and personal, that was no problem at all... I can see the versatility in the EHarps, but i have yet to hear it played in an ensemble....with music that requires, perhaps, chromatic variations of II-V chord progressions....or , at least part way around the circle of 4ths/5ths.
Do the EHarps function as MIDI controllers, so I can play the M1 with it? Being an ensemble player, rather than a solo performer, Im trying to see how I can utilize one of them for my own music. i'm guessing I can probably play all my scales faster on the wind controller, and have access to any scale , at any time, without having to press a button to change key.
Are there any videos of EHarps in diverse musical contexts? There was a lead sound I heard in the Alpha example that was interesting, however...if thats all it does, it could get very boring very quickly...1) is that sound available for the Pico, or the Tau....and 2) can passages be played quickly with precision?


written by: geert

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 09:39:36 +0000 GMT

Hi,

Yes, the Eigenharp can function as MIDI controllers for external synths but limiting it to that is really reducing its capabilities. Most hardware synths are very limited in the rate of MIDI messages that they can receive, meaning that you lose a lot of continuous expression (but you can limit the Eigenharp for this if you want).

If you want to play the Eigenharp as a solo monophonic instrument, then you're probably going to be interested in a new feature of EigenD 2, which is the fingerer. It basically allows key combinations to be used, similar to acoustic valved instruments. The range of the Pico dramatically increases in chromatic mode with that. The available fingering combinations are fully editable and there are additional features like modifiers to quickly jump up or down, glide based on pressure for instance to smoothly glide between notes, polyphony modifiers to add chords on top of a root note, etc ...

I suggest you search on YouTube for Eigenharp performances, there are quite a few out there, I suspect that Robin's ECMS Recital videos might come close to what you're looking for: https://www.youtube.com/user/083ron

If you don't use external MIDI instruments and rely on AU/VST hosting, Soundfonts or the internal instrument models (clarinet, cello, modular synth) then you can get a lot of expression and detail out of these sounds. You're not limited anymore by the bandwidth restrictions of traditional MIDI. AU/VST plugins still are limited by the MIDI protocol's design, but with some effort this can be alleviated to reach a usable level of continuous expressiveness.

In terms of sounds, really all sounds that are currently addressable in electronic MIDI can be used with an Eigenharp (even CV only synths). So yes, the lead sound you heard is also and that on Pico, Tau and Alpha.

With proper training and regular rehearsing, the Eigenharp can be played just as quickly and precisely as any other instrument. I'm finding that I'm now playing faster on the Eigenharp than on the guitar that I've been playing for 25 years.

Hope this helps,

Geert


written by: MarkPowell

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 10:41:20 +0000 GMT

Just to pick up on Geert's comment in case it's not clear, the Eigenharp can function as a MIDI controller, but only via a computer - there is no MIDI out on the Eigenharps, so you couldn't plug directly into your M1 in the same way as you can with an EWI4000S (the EH has no MIDI ports). If you wanted to control an external synth via the EH, you would need to have a MIDI (or CV if the synth supported) interface attached to the computer and then run from that into the synth.

I'm a lapsed sax player myself, but my trusty Selmer had to go when the kids were born and it was gathering dust due to evening practice being out of the question. I owned an EWI4000s for a while, but it wasn't for me to be honest (lack of key movement in particular) and I much prefer my EH Alpha (although it was nearly ten times the price, so I guess that's hardly surprising!) I own a Pico, but don't really use the fingerer agent (just never got around to it). The one thing I would say is that if you're going down the Fingerer route, you may need to factor in the cost of an upgrade to the EigenD Pro - the fingerer setup that comes 'out of the box' is still experimental at the minute and therefore may need tweaks to work for your particular playing preferences. if you need to do this then it's almost impossible without using the Workbench software, which only comes with an EigenD Pro subscription.

The thing to bear in mind is that the EH isn't geared towards sax players specifically. Whereas an EWI is deliberately designed in such a way to emulate the fingering of a sax (including the fingering constraints that are imposed by the physical layout of the real thing,) the EH is much more a 'blank canvas' - this is a good thing and a bad thing depending on perspective. If you want something that you can pick and jump straight into at full speed then for a sax player the EWI is a much better option in my opinion, but if you think of it as a different instrument entirely and tailor it to you needs then, like Geert says, it can be better to play and in some cases faster and (much, much) more expressive.

Hope this ramble helps. There are quite a few of the regular EH players that seem to also own wind controllers, so I suspect others will contribute as well.

Thanks,
Mark.


written by: geert

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 13:04:06 +0000 GMT

Mark, there's a fingerer setup shipping with EigenD now that should offer most functionalities that people want. The actual fingerings can be edited in a text file and customised. I don't think that using the fingerer really requires Workbench.


written by: MarkPowell

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:20:25 +0000 GMT

Hi Geert,
That's still experimental though (unless I'm missing something). Is it mature enough for proper use now? If so I might take a look when I get a spare half hour.

Cheers,
Mark.


written by: geert

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:26:43 +0000 GMT

Hi Mark,

It's still experimental in terms that it could be better polished. We're aware of one rare issue when modifiers are conflicting by using overlaying fingering combinations. This is extremely rare though.
For the rest, it should be totally usable and a few users are already using it regularly. I was personally pleasantly surprised when experimenting with fingerer, it really opens up a totally new and very expressive way of playing.

Take care,

Geert


written by: 0beron

Mon, 14 Jan 2013 11:53:53 +0000 GMT

Thanks for posting my video geert :) I guess I should say a little about my playing style since it seems close to what SaxTX is going for -
I play the Alpha in its default chromatic mode almost all the time. This is for a reason that SaxTX touches on - that of having to change scale and key with menu buttons. Playing in the chromatic setting sacrifices some range in terms of number of octaves, but means you can get at any scale or key regardless. Playing complex chord changes is very doable, although not being a piano player I struggle with this (but the problem is very definitely in the player and not the instrument! )

The really nice thing about the chromatic layout is that it is 'isomorphic' - ie if you learn the finger pattern for a major, minor, pentatonic, blues, modal etc scale, then they translate into all keys with no modifications - compare this to a sax / EWI / yamaha WX controller where some scales are especially awkward.

I guess playing melody on the harp in chromatic mode is most similar to playing hammer-on on a guitar, except that the sensitivity of the keys let you achieve greater speed and allow a very light touch.

The fingerer mode is interesting - very programmable (I have written a definition file that attempts to emulate the yamaha wind controller fingering as I also play WX5). I think the fingerer setups would benefit most from some tuning not in the mechanics of the fingerings which are already very sophisticated, but more in the response and characteristics of the synth sound you control with it.

I have played my alpha in an ensemble environment very sucessfully , even a few times in the corner of an irish pub session (it's ok the people there know me and are prepared to put up with such things ;) )



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