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General Discussion: Editing AU music with high definition

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written by: carvingCode

Couple points I'll add to what I wrote over the weekend:

  • The DAWs I use (Studio One and REAPER) don't require special routing when I open an AU in them. I can monitor the audio from the AU from within the DAW using the DAW's default settings.

  • Conversely, I would need special routing if I played the AU directly from the Harp and sent just MIDI to the DAW.

  • Keep it simple.

    Randy

written by: cropleyb

Sun, 9 Sep 2012 11:26:43 +0100 BST

Hi all

I'm having trouble figuring this out myself. I'm sure it has been answered several times, so my apologies...

I have Logic Studio 9, and it has many instruments.
I can record the MIDI output of my Pico, then edit it in Logic to sound much better. First question: Are these instruments accessible directly as AU plugins? My impression is they are not...
How about 3rd party AU instrument libraries? I have Garritan JABB 3 and have just ordered NI Komplete 8. I can see the Garritan instruments within EigenD, and configure them and play them, but the output is Audio, which I'd rather avoid having to edit in Logic (cf. MIDI). Is the communication between EigenD and these instruments higher fidelity than if they are used as Logic plugins via MIDI? (I'm guessing so)
Does anyone use a combination of recording both MIDI (for editing), and audio simultaneously from EigenD? Can the routing matrix be shared between the two?

Thanks,
Bruce


written by: carvingCode

Sun, 9 Sep 2012 12:31:53 +0100 BST

There is some difference between granularity of signal between Harp -> AU and Harp -> MIDI -> AU. Through the Routing matrix, you have access to more of the internal control of a AU if you go direct, but have access to all MIDI CCs if going through MIDI.

For recording (when wanting access to the MIDI data), I find it best to load the AU within the DAW and use MIDI. Making appropriate adjustments in the Routing Matrix and Stage will give you control over the AU.

I use Soundflower (MacOS) when I only need to record audio. For Windows, you need to use your audio interface for this.

There's much debate about whether one should play direct to AU or not. For recording into a DAW, I've always found the results more than acceptable going MIDI -> AU.

Trying to come up with some elaborate routing mechanism will (IMO) 1) create more complexity than needed and 2) keep you away from spending more time creating music.

Hope this helps.

Randy


written by: geert

Sun, 9 Sep 2012 13:39:21 +0100 BST

Hi Randy,

I'm curious to know why loading the AU in a DAW and control through MIDI would be easier than playing it directly in EigenD? The MIDI output from EigenD goes through the MIDI Converter, which uses the exact same Routing Matrix as the AudioUnit agent one. So, you have to do that anyway to generate MIDI ... then in your DAW you probably use MIDI CC learn in the plugin, any reason why you wouldn't use that inside EigenD? If you don't use the host automation parameters, Harp -> AU uses MIDI just as Harp -> MIDI->DAW(AU).

My experience is that for playing MIDI, having a DAW in the middle is just added complexity with more complex routing to work with than just hosting the AU/VST in EigenD, for producing and recording music that's another story of course since you need that additional features that a DAW provides.

This is genuine curiosity on my behalf, since if you find that using a DAW for playing is easier than hosting the AU, then there might be some things we may be able to do to make it easier for your workflow.

Take care,

Geert


written by: geert

Sun, 9 Sep 2012 13:05:52 +0100 BST

Hi Bruce,

The native Logic instruments and effects are not available outside of the DAW, which is very similar to any DAW out there (Cubase, Live, ...).

AudioUnit and VST instruments are available directly in EigenD. There are several advantages to doing this:

1. you don't have to work with virtual MIDI interfaces to route data back and forth
2. you don't have a double latency (EigenD + DAW)
3. you can use host automation parameters directly and polyphonically (http://www.eigenlabs.com/wiki/2.0/Configuring_AudioUnit_and_VST_plugins/)
4. you can directly tie other controls like breath, strip, other keys, ... to your host parameters without having to convert to and from MIDI first
5. you can use the outgoing plugin audio directly in EigenD and route it back to the Eigenharp easily (Tau, Alpha) or process it further with other EigenD agents or other AU/VST plugins that can again be controlled directly by the Eigenharp
6. you're not limited to 7 bit MIDI resolution (very few DAWs actually properly support 14 bit MIDI)
7. you don't have to learn about the internal DAW routing, tracks, setup, switching, etc, etc
8. you don't deal with potential bugs of yet another software application
9. you use less resources both in RAM and CPU
10. for live usage it's much more trivial to have just one application to start to be able to play, as opposed to the right combination of a series of applications that have to work together

One thing to realize is that there's no reason to host an AU/VST inside your DAW just to be able to record MIDI. You can very well play a MIDI output at the same time as an AU instrument on the Eigenharp (select them both with the mode key) and you'll have all the benefits of both.

Finally, there's only one DAW that supports per-note high resolution expression editing, that's Cubase 6 with Note Expression. It's a premium feature on the full version of Cubase 6 and still requires you to use MIDI with voice-per-channel for polyphony to play the information in real time. There's no way yet to directly have it control VST3 note expression parameters that way though, that's only possible through polyphonic pressure at this time, but Steinberg might improve that for a next version.

Hope this helps,

Geert


written by: carvingCode

Sun, 9 Sep 2012 20:13:42 +0100 BST

Geert - When my purpose is recording, I like to have MIDI data. This gives me the opportunity to use that MIDI data in many ways, from cleaning sloppy performance to note shifting to track duplication to different instruments, etc.

I'll end up bouncing the MIDI track to audio before mixing, but at the early stages, I like working with the MIDI data.

It has nothing to do with the Eigenharp. If my purpose is strictly performance, I currently go direct from Harp to AU. That said, I do long for a DAW-type mixer. Yes, all of the basics are in Stage, but currently, for me, it's cumbersome to work with.

Randy


written by: cropleyb

Mon, 10 Sep 2012 05:24:26 +0100 BST

Thank you both for your detailed answers. It gives me more to look in to, but that's OK.

Bruce


written by: carvingCode

Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:32:25 +0100 BST

Couple points I'll add to what I wrote over the weekend:

  • The DAWs I use (Studio One and REAPER) don't require special routing when I open an AU in them. I can monitor the audio from the AU from within the DAW using the DAW's default settings.

  • Conversely, I would need special routing if I played the AU directly from the Harp and sent just MIDI to the DAW.

  • Keep it simple.

    Randy



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